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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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thank you got the August right here in

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the main tonight international studios

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annex which is where we are right now

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and welcome to well what era which is

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George bloody show phew thanks man odd

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welcome to the skeptic Zone episode

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number 508 for the 15th of July 2018

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Richard Saunders here trying to do a

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show and we are in the main art studio

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annex the Sydney annex of your studio

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with a live audience maybe not it's nice

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to catch up with you Maynard now coming

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up on this week's show we'll get

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straight into it we have an

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extra-special skeptics in the pub where

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you were running around we had dr.

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Angela Matt key all the way from the

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United States come to give us a talk but

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also you speak to dr. Brad McCoy talked

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to other pub goers and interview Dr Ng

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herself that's right - dr. Brad Manke is

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one of the doctors in New South Wales

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that want to get an exhibit sort of like

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yeah get get them to come clean or at

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least kick them out of the state you

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know send them to somewhere like I know

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Tasmania or something move you

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controversy controversy listeners will

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find out more a bit later on in the show

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following that some news from our

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friends of the Canberra skeptics they've

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got a talk coming up and then we're

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going to round off with a very

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interesting piece of news the C F I

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Center for inquiry in the United States

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are suing a pharmacy chain because they

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sell homeopathy yes I saw that and

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they're really getting into it with them

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too and a shout out to all the

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Australians that are having a cold snap

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here at the moment cuz I know

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people tune into the sceptic zone for

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Australian weather reports and the

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weather report today is cold in fact I

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saw on some news report that this

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morning was the the coldest morning of

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the year and I guess some records have

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been set somewhere it's cold it's cold

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yes so I was thinking for that because

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of the Canberra sceptics so they would

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kind of be waking up to sub-zero on the

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Celsius scale anyway a few days recently

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you know they'd be chipping the ice off

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their windscreen and driving off I know

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that North Americans ago tell me about

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it you're losers but come on look for

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here are we don't see ice on our

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windscreen well not frozen water anyway

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not quite

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now speaking our studio we have a studio

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we do have a studio audience yet

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audience hello that's it that is all we

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get there no no no you get something

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else oh oh sorry I'm putting that debt

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Thank You studio audience oh oh she's

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gone now

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speaking of things like homeopathy and

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pharmacies which is worthy of our bent

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spoon award listeners you still have

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time and we encourage you to do so if

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you have somebody in Australia a service

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or someone you think is performing whoo

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or someone ripping off the public using

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dodgy paranormal or pseudo scientific

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claims please nominate them for this

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year's bent spoon award and you can do

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that at skeptics comm 8u and for example

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who are the who won last year's what was

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some of the nominations for last year's

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to give people an idea what they should

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be thinking about well I just off the

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top of my head trying to remember of

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course last year it was the National

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Institute of complementary medicine and

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the University of Western Sydney good

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Anya hon previous winners have been

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people like Pete Evans the chef

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promoting laws the Paleo diet

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chiropractors have won in the past the

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homeopathy plus Fran Sheffield way back

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to people like Peter Brock the famous

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racing car driver one for an all gone

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energy device all sorts of things but

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skeptics comdataís you for more

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information and please Australian

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listeners put your thinking caps on and

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nominate someone for the bent spoon and

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they just go to the website to do that

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do they they certainly do but I think it

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may not it's time for me now to run over

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to your luxurious kitchen kitchenette

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that's right the main and international

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studios at kitchen anacs anacs where

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there we have we have a well that look

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there's a couple of bottles of old

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claret from the 70s there with the cork

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off I think I'll be getting into that I

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want you I was using that as bench

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cleaner but I think we'll have a glass

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of that before you go any donuts any

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donuts any right there let's rush into

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the kitchen see what we can find with

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our audience member while we do that we

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hope you enjoy the skeptic zone and find

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out where this sound machine came from

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oh no no no I meant well that was pretty

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good wasn't it what do you think

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[Music]

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his main art spooky action at a distance

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we're here at skeptics in the pub for

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July as usual skeptics of rushing

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skeptics are hushing some skeptics are

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even flushing but right now I'm here

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with a look professional supermodel

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turned scientist we're gonna be talking

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to her later because we all know science

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is where the real money is we'll be

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talking to Richard Saunders one of

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Australia's greatest public thinkers and

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of course I'm a nerd one of Australia's

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public embarrassments and we'll be

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talking about things that you won't

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believe the intersection of science and

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medicine and religion because I just

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like saying the word intersection

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because it makes you seem smart in their

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social justice warrior circles that's

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for sure it's the intersection of

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Richard Saunders and the floor hello

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hello main oh it's nice to be back in

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Australia and skeptics in the pub he's

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been in San Francisco working his way

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through he's reached he's done the night

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shift at every bar south of the the

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whatever street and markets markets and

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folks I found may not something

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exquisite from San Francisco oh did we

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what as well he got me this from Las

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Vegas a while ago you've heard that and

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you can't see this but it's a Batman

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figurine

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it's the bookworm that's right the

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bookworm it's Fanta Roddy McDowall Roddy

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McDowall yeah and he got me this which

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means we may never I never may never

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need to edit again it's a sound effect

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machined I'll just hit something at

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random that was a window sorry and I

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love they just go on for a bit longer

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than they should like this one should

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yeah by which time everyone's left the

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room may have indeed may not here we are

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at skeptics in the public Oh dr. Angela

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Matt keep speaking tonight but tonight's

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question pub goers is would you mind if

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you were abducted by a UFO that is good

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because I still haven't found a way just

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oh yes okay how do I get it oh how not

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to get abducted would you mind if you

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were abducted by an alien and what what

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would you expect would happen Wow

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definitely not I mean just have to look

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at a Travis Walton I've met Travis

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Walton personally and he's one of the

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most famous abductees in the entire

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world and the most witnesses of an egg

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abductee mr. skeptic eight eight

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witnesses and some of them are passed

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why lie detector test which boys what

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can I say and you know you've made it

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when people call you mr. skeptic yeah

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that's right yeah dr. Angela Mackay over

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here she wants to be abducted by an

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alien I now and she's sane Travis Walton

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and you want to end up like that I think

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it would depend a lot on whether the

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alien was most resembled I don't know

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Matt Damon or

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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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yeah because I've got but haven't you

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experienced a hypnagogic state where you

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thought you've been awake but you

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haven't been able to move or that have

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you had that happen to you I've had that

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happened but I never had aliens involved

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because I have had that state and felt

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that they've been people in the room

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when they haven't been and so that's

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been pretty unusual and I could see how

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at that extended to a more vivid

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experience could be of an abduction

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thing I've had the hypnopompic where you

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fall feel like you're falling because

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the brain hasn't quite turned off the

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body from the sleeping experience yet is

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that what causes that that's what you

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get a lot of honest answers here and

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other ones tonight on skeptics in the

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pub look I'm not been in these special

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hidden section where the the shadowy

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elite hide and move got got Jessica

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who's a greater than I hello hello I'm

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in the shadows here it has your greeting

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going tonight it's Sam

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it's going really well any new people

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here yeah quite a few new well people I

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haven't met so I think then you I'm yeah

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I need to suss it out need to introduce

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myself data make them feel welcome

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that's true now question for the night

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is would you like to be abducted by

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aliens and why oh yes they don't know

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why is that probes you think absolutely

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I want more of them I like holding up

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the example of Travis Walton news

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problem girl illnesses Imus once and

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he's his life has not been a happy thing

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after his abduction so I don't know why

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everyone was rushing to be abducted I

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don't know I his old stream gets the

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appear at the occasional convention and

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things any story I sort of see huh so it

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Hillbillies sort of thing is I have

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interviewed him and he does seem very

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earnest to my mind he seems like someone

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who is speaking about something that

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could well happen I'm sure he does yeah

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yeah okay you would like that experience

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I would like definite proof of probes

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yeah

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proof of probes is what I want actually

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right now a yes I want to understand

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what they're all about why they keep

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doing it now of course in the in the

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skeptic magazine is there is this being

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covered at some stage recently we could

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look up online yeah we have actually

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we've covered a lot of UFOs a UFO is

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more than aliens per se right who have

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had an article by probably one of the

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world's

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most important sort of UFO investigators

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who investigated for 40 50 years looking

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at every bit of photographic evidence

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series and finally they said not nothing

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there by the way can I point out that

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why do aliens keep probing people is

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that like Japanese people keep killing

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whales look at research purposes look

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it's as varied as the experience of the

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person and the answer you get ranges

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from experimental to food yeah you did

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ask me I think I came to mind about the

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probe that's a bit would move from the

273
00:10:45,340 --> 00:10:44,120
shadowy elite section over there or a

274
00:10:46,810 --> 00:10:45,350
few people wouldn't even talk to me

275
00:10:48,310 --> 00:10:46,820
about this shoe into into the bright

276
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:48,320
light of people having a beer who've we

277
00:10:52,420 --> 00:10:51,290
got here I'm Jeremy and Kate TomTom's

278
00:10:54,790 --> 00:10:52,430
have been along eater skeptics in the

279
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:54,800
post will be our third time okay now of

280
00:10:58,540 --> 00:10:55,850
course why do you keep coming back

281
00:10:59,830 --> 00:10:58,550
you've seen all the neckbeards here well

282
00:11:01,630 --> 00:10:59,840
it's an interesting group of people and

283
00:11:03,940 --> 00:11:01,640
there's always a fascinating talk and on

284
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:03,950
an interesting topic so yeah it's always

285
00:11:07,450 --> 00:11:06,050
a fun time to come down and what are you

286
00:11:19,230 --> 00:11:07,460
most skeptical about what's the thing

287
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:19,240
you get off come on people and also

288
00:11:25,690 --> 00:11:21,650
denying medical science in particularly

289
00:11:28,690 --> 00:11:25,700
around cancer cancer cures and that sort

290
00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:28,700
of thing so so people who either don't

291
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:30,080
believe it's a thing or people who offer

292
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:31,610
fake cures and waste their time

293
00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:34,010
unfortunately with that yeah fake cures

294
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:35,600
and stuff offering false hope to people

295
00:11:40,510 --> 00:11:39,530
that that need more than false hope what

296
00:11:42,010 --> 00:11:40,520
do you think about that woman that

297
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:42,020
recently wasn't able to pay the fine

298
00:11:48,570 --> 00:11:44,690
that she was given for giving her

299
00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:48,580
wellness diet that was used the 2014

300
00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:50,510
cosmopolitan woman of the year as well

301
00:11:54,820 --> 00:11:53,540
yeah I think that was a bit of a a bit

302
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:54,830
dodgy watching what she did there I

303
00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:56,240
think she was just in that for the money

304
00:11:59,300 --> 00:11:56,970
yeah

305
00:12:01,009 --> 00:11:59,310
right about there but with the aliens

306
00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:01,019
there would you like to be you know

307
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:03,420
abducted by aliens and if so why

308
00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:05,730
yeah I think I think as long as there

309
00:12:12,139 --> 00:12:10,529
wasn't any sort of memory-wiping and

310
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:12,149
everything I think I think I'd be

311
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:13,920
interesting to sort of see it from a

312
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:16,620
sceptical point of view as the the only

313
00:12:21,019 --> 00:12:19,410
alien abduction and and to see what they

314
00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:21,029
can what they could teach us or what we

315
00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:22,620
can learn from them and what they can

316
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:24,750
learn from us what about you because to

317
00:12:27,769 --> 00:12:25,920
be an abduction sounds like a very

318
00:12:29,929 --> 00:12:27,779
traumatic thing yeah

319
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:29,939
potentially yes because you could see

320
00:12:34,340 --> 00:12:32,160
the universe travel the world but new uh

321
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:34,350
new experiences where would you ask him

322
00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:35,610
to take you if you're in the spaceship

323
00:12:38,119 --> 00:12:36,750
because I imagine but let's just stick

324
00:12:39,290 --> 00:12:38,129
with in the solar systems there anything

325
00:12:40,309 --> 00:12:39,300
you'd like to have a bit of a look at if

326
00:12:42,499 --> 00:12:40,319
they could take you there

327
00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:42,509
I'd say certain to see Saturn up close

328
00:12:47,150 --> 00:12:45,720
close yeah really bummer if you get

329
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:47,160
there and it's a bit like a movie set

330
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:48,930
you get there and like it the colors

331
00:12:51,889 --> 00:12:50,160
aren't as bright because they've been

332
00:12:54,829 --> 00:12:51,899
turned up by NASA's photoshopping you

333
00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:54,839
are really ripped off here where do you

334
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:58,170
like to go maybe the moon of I around

335
00:13:00,769 --> 00:12:58,639
Jupiter

336
00:13:02,799 --> 00:13:00,779
sounds like a bit of fun is that the one

337
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:02,809
that's frozen what what goes on there

338
00:13:06,530 --> 00:13:05,250
hopefully I'm right but I think it's the

339
00:13:08,210 --> 00:13:06,540
one that's been sort of pulled apart

340
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:08,220
between Jupiter and one of the other

341
00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:12,930
moons and it's very really cool stuff

342
00:13:18,410 --> 00:13:16,040
like it look like a issue drawing over

343
00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:18,420
have a good time tonight we've got Angie

344
00:13:21,199 --> 00:13:19,860
going on about some science here or

345
00:13:22,549 --> 00:13:21,209
stuff in that so just don't your stuff

346
00:13:25,519 --> 00:13:22,559
out but if you do make it really good

347
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:25,529
okay well thank you big question tonight

348
00:13:29,629 --> 00:13:26,970
is would you like to be back to buy

349
00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:29,639
aliens yes or no and you know and would

350
00:13:33,049 --> 00:13:31,139
you like them to take you anybody and

351
00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:33,059
what would you think you'd like to be

352
00:13:37,369 --> 00:13:35,910
abducted by aliens again I again I point

353
00:13:39,530 --> 00:13:37,379
the Travis Walton thing because it seems

354
00:13:40,970 --> 00:13:39,540
quite traumatic yeah I mean this is one

355
00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:40,980
of the few occasions where I would very

356
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:42,779
much like a record risk assessment and

357
00:13:47,299 --> 00:13:44,970
some paperwork to read beforehand oh you

358
00:13:49,069 --> 00:13:47,309
want some alien lawyers yeah I'd like to

359
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:49,079
go over the contract what you can and

360
00:13:52,130 --> 00:13:50,130
can't do

361
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:52,140
it definitely have been informed consent

362
00:13:56,420 --> 00:13:55,170
from my point of view have to have what

363
00:13:58,880 --> 00:13:56,430
they have for some conferences like a

364
00:14:00,860 --> 00:13:58,890
code of conduct for the abduction I want

365
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:00,870
a code of conduct for my abduction thank

366
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:02,730
you yeah well like in medicine we always

367
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:03,510
say that you know you should have

368
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:05,010
informed consent for every procedure

369
00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:06,330
that you do so the patient should know

370
00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:07,740
everything is happening to them that's

371
00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:11,550
how I would feel in there enough then

372
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:13,110
well okay well so you had that for them

373
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:14,370
which is a very good idea I think

374
00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:16,260
everybody well where would you like them

375
00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:17,760
to take you say okay look you can have a

376
00:14:20,570 --> 00:14:18,870
look at night you can have a look at my

377
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:20,580
thigh on my arm or whatever bit you're

378
00:14:23,270 --> 00:14:22,290
having a look at for whatever reason

379
00:14:24,860 --> 00:14:23,280
they're having a look at why do you

380
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:24,870
think they're so interested in abducting

381
00:14:32,450 --> 00:14:30,510
us anyway that's probably a good thing

382
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:32,460
well if they were there where would you

383
00:14:33,950 --> 00:14:33,570
like them to take you in the solar

384
00:14:35,870 --> 00:14:33,960
system

385
00:14:39,650 --> 00:14:35,880
I'd actually very much like to leave

386
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:39,660
that up to them because think about it

387
00:14:43,790 --> 00:14:41,850
when you go out when you meet a tourist

388
00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:43,800
in Sydney and they ask you you know

389
00:14:46,670 --> 00:14:45,270
where should I go you tell them

390
00:14:48,110 --> 00:14:46,680
somewhere and they probably go I have

391
00:14:49,010 --> 00:14:48,120
never even heard of that place that

392
00:14:50,930 --> 00:14:49,020
sounds amazing

393
00:14:52,610 --> 00:14:50,940
whereas of course you go to the Harbour

394
00:14:53,540 --> 00:14:52,620
Bridge go to the Opera House he alright

395
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:53,550
great

396
00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:55,410
like do you not me yeah so it's gaily in

397
00:14:58,340 --> 00:14:56,760
the equivalent of the Hellfire Club that

398
00:15:04,040 --> 00:14:58,350
no one knows about and you get to go

399
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:04,050
what this place is fantastic I may want

400
00:15:07,940 --> 00:15:05,370
to be abducted after all because I first

401
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:07,950
said no look people saying main up where

402
00:15:12,260 --> 00:15:09,930
would you like to go in the solar system

403
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,270
and I would like to go because dr.

404
00:15:17,420 --> 00:15:14,880
Pamela gay thinks that the square

405
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:17,430
looking thing that's at the pole of the

406
00:15:21,770 --> 00:15:20,160
Neptune is not man-made it's square

407
00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:21,780
Pamela its square

408
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:23,910
nothing is square in nature there is a

409
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:26,450
man-made structure in the North Pole of

410
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:29,010
Neptune get used to it anyway that's all

411
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:31,290
I can say because you know because I did

412
00:15:35,060 --> 00:15:33,210
I did a whole stuff about things that

413
00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:35,070
are in the sky and it wasn't astrology

414
00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:36,360
anyway that's where I would like to go

415
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:38,220
just to see so I could take a photo up

416
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:39,510
and say see Pamela look man-made

417
00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:42,330
structure that yeah so would you like to

418
00:15:47,660 --> 00:15:45,240
be abducted by aliens anywhere in the

419
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:47,670
solar or anywhere in the universe well

420
00:15:51,070 --> 00:15:49,050
I'm just going with the solar system so

421
00:15:53,230 --> 00:15:51,080
we keep it local so yeah

422
00:15:56,140 --> 00:15:53,240
I want I want people to be listening for

423
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,150
Mars and go hey that's about me yeah I

424
00:15:59,410 --> 00:15:58,160
would say IO would probably be the most

425
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:59,420
interesting it seems like one of the

426
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:01,040
more dynamic places out there I mean

427
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:04,000
it's a hellhole but it's kind of neat

428
00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:07,730
would you have a second choice second

429
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:08,380
choice

430
00:16:13,210 --> 00:16:11,450
maybe me mas or me ma soeur my Ma's

431
00:16:14,770 --> 00:16:13,220
however that's pronounced that a

432
00:16:15,790 --> 00:16:14,780
movement something what's that yeah it's

433
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:15,800
a moon that's the one that looks like

434
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:17,090
the Death Star with the giant giant

435
00:16:23,170 --> 00:16:18,320
crater in the middle middle of it

436
00:16:24,430 --> 00:16:23,180
yeah choices well we've got Miranda here

437
00:16:26,620 --> 00:16:24,440
now is this your first time here is it

438
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,630
random no it's not my first time here

439
00:16:30,670 --> 00:16:28,160
but I haven't been here very often

440
00:16:32,620 --> 00:16:30,680
okay one usually it's normally the first

441
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:32,630
Thursday of the month and because and

442
00:16:37,570 --> 00:16:35,570
she was our speaker but we put it back

443
00:16:39,190 --> 00:16:37,580
so she could be here so it would you

444
00:16:41,770 --> 00:16:39,200
like to be abducted by aliens I would

445
00:16:44,650 --> 00:16:41,780
love to be abducted by aliens why is

446
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:44,660
that I think I'll be quite unusual

447
00:16:47,580 --> 00:16:46,310
wouldn't it I'd like to we could meet

448
00:16:50,410 --> 00:16:47,590
some new people

449
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:50,420
exciting places well yeah and when we

450
00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:52,370
talk about exciting places we're in the

451
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:53,990
solar system would you like them to take

452
00:17:02,240 --> 00:16:55,210
you if you could have a look at it

453
00:17:04,350 --> 00:17:02,250
[Music]

454
00:17:06,270 --> 00:17:04,360
now why is that because it sort of red

455
00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:06,280
and dusty and you've seen a bit of it in

456
00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:08,860
photos see the thing is the faraway

457
00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:10,750
planets are sound a bit cold star they

458
00:17:14,970 --> 00:17:13,209
oh yeah the gas giants are exactly what

459
00:17:16,860 --> 00:17:14,980
they sound they're gas giants when has

460
00:17:17,069 --> 00:17:16,870
ever enjoyed a tall person talking too

461
00:17:21,630 --> 00:17:17,079
much

462
00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:21,640
exactly exactly kind of sounds like it's

463
00:17:29,659 --> 00:17:23,110
good but you could get there and it

464
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:31,950
well we're assuming the aliens have got

465
00:17:35,580 --> 00:17:33,970
some sort of faster-than-light or some

466
00:17:40,890 --> 00:17:35,590
sort of warp thing that gets them around

467
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:40,900
a bit that's pretty good to me like well

468
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:43,210
I don't know well well they come in

469
00:17:47,070 --> 00:17:44,710
different descriptions don't they you've

470
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,080
got your classic Gray's you've got some

471
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:49,120
robotic ones that were seen in the 50s

472
00:17:53,010 --> 00:17:50,890
but they come in all descriptions which

473
00:17:54,750 --> 00:17:53,020
could indicate that it's maybe some sort

474
00:17:56,220 --> 00:17:54,760
of other thing other than an actual

475
00:18:01,529 --> 00:17:56,230
physical manifestation of

476
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:01,539
extraterrestrials it could be something

477
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:04,450
more to do with um well I mean the

478
00:18:08,159 --> 00:18:06,490
extra-terrestrial hypothesis let's get

479
00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:08,169
into it listener the extra-terrestrial

480
00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:10,780
hypothesis is just one process about why

481
00:18:14,340 --> 00:18:12,760
what they are they could be time

482
00:18:17,220 --> 00:18:14,350
travelers they could be from another

483
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:17,230
dimension they could be something else

484
00:18:25,769 --> 00:18:19,150
entirely they haven't thought of or some

485
00:18:31,709 --> 00:18:28,169
what would you go with if those are

486
00:18:33,989 --> 00:18:31,719
popular sort of more religious oh yeah

487
00:18:36,089 --> 00:18:33,999
yeah they do yeah because because people

488
00:18:37,589 --> 00:18:36,099
are uh a religious spent sometimes look

489
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:37,599
at the biblical thing and weave that

490
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:39,129
into the whole thing and of course

491
00:18:42,209 --> 00:18:40,690
people also think that there may be the

492
00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:42,219
dead people returning as well that's

493
00:18:47,459 --> 00:18:44,460
also another hypothesis as well

494
00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:47,469
carnation yeah it's some sort of a ghost

495
00:18:51,570 --> 00:18:49,809
thing and people are building it to be

496
00:18:54,209 --> 00:18:51,580
extra his their extraterrestrial when

497
00:19:00,899 --> 00:18:54,219
it's in fact ghost related but that yeah

498
00:19:02,999 --> 00:19:00,909
I don't get that it's confusing look I'm

499
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:03,009
here with dr. Brad McKay and skeptics in

500
00:19:05,579 --> 00:19:04,330
the pub we have been asking it would

501
00:19:09,719 --> 00:19:05,589
that would you like to be abducted by

502
00:19:11,249 --> 00:19:09,729
aliens at all I think the the actual

503
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:11,259
word abducted means that you're going

504
00:19:13,979 --> 00:19:12,369
without your consent

505
00:19:15,959 --> 00:19:13,989
that is correct a few people have raised

506
00:19:18,749 --> 00:19:15,969
that so yeah I think I would like to

507
00:19:20,459 --> 00:19:18,759
like give my consent if I was gonna be

508
00:19:22,229 --> 00:19:20,469
so once again you want the aliens to

509
00:19:24,060 --> 00:19:22,239
have a code of conduct yeah yeah I

510
00:19:26,219 --> 00:19:24,070
wonder what it all written out and I

511
00:19:28,169 --> 00:19:26,229
yeah tell me at least a week beforehand

512
00:19:29,879 --> 00:19:28,179
I'll get over there to get my lunch box

513
00:19:32,459 --> 00:19:29,889
get those extraterrestrial lawyers on

514
00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:32,469
this exactly okay well okay say you work

515
00:19:35,249 --> 00:19:33,820
at some deal with them where would you

516
00:19:38,430 --> 00:19:35,259
like them to take you in the solar

517
00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:38,440
system what do you ever look at just be

518
00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:40,089
able to go to the moon I know that's not

519
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:48,190
so exciting but mister boring no it is

520
00:19:51,299 --> 00:19:49,330
good because you could see that the

521
00:19:53,159 --> 00:19:51,309
craft are there you can see the rubbish

522
00:19:54,810 --> 00:19:53,169
the astronauts left behind yeah see the

523
00:19:56,999 --> 00:19:54,820
dark side of the moon that you never

524
00:19:58,289 --> 00:19:57,009
gets the Sun on it right and you can see

525
00:20:00,329 --> 00:19:58,299
there's any structures here or not

526
00:20:02,399 --> 00:20:00,339
yeah those transformers I think they're

527
00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:02,409
they're situated there no no serious not

528
00:20:04,919 --> 00:20:03,609
you and a lot of other doctors have come

529
00:20:07,109 --> 00:20:04,929
out about an exhibition that's been

530
00:20:09,089 --> 00:20:07,119
touring in New South Wales that is some

531
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:09,099
sort of is it actually breaching a few

532
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:11,830
in international law please tell us

533
00:20:15,499 --> 00:20:13,210
about this Chinese exhibition you have

534
00:20:17,969 --> 00:20:15,509
it's us about yeah so the real bodies

535
00:20:20,459 --> 00:20:17,979
exhibition is being shown at the moment

536
00:20:22,469 --> 00:20:20,469
in Australia and that the problem is

537
00:20:25,289 --> 00:20:22,479
that it's been going for about 15 years

538
00:20:27,450 --> 00:20:25,299
all around the world and they still

539
00:20:29,629 --> 00:20:27,460
don't give us a definitive answer of

540
00:20:32,659 --> 00:20:29,639
where the bodies are from

541
00:20:34,930 --> 00:20:32,669
so they've told everybody that that they

542
00:20:39,229 --> 00:20:34,940
were people who weren't claimed

543
00:20:41,419 --> 00:20:39,239
unclaimed bodies so that they were that

544
00:20:42,979 --> 00:20:41,429
they died well you probably couldn't

545
00:20:46,669 --> 00:20:42,989
have that happen with homeless people in

546
00:20:49,999 --> 00:20:46,679
Beijing yeah so and that 30 days went by

547
00:20:52,430 --> 00:20:50,009
and these people were unclaimed and so

548
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:52,440
then they were made into an exhibit so

549
00:20:56,749 --> 00:20:54,169
the problem is that if you're actually

550
00:20:59,719 --> 00:20:56,759
plasticizing somebody then you're

551
00:21:02,959 --> 00:20:59,729
needing to do that within like 24 hours

552
00:21:05,509 --> 00:21:02,969
of them dying so the whole question that

553
00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:05,519
still hasn't been answered is how do you

554
00:21:12,109 --> 00:21:09,529
plasticize somebody before 30 days is up

555
00:21:15,409 --> 00:21:12,119
while you're waiting for them to become

556
00:21:16,969 --> 00:21:15,419
and claimed so there are a few questions

557
00:21:18,979 --> 00:21:16,979
that are being asked would they have

558
00:21:20,269 --> 00:21:18,989
frozen them and then plasticized them

559
00:21:22,729 --> 00:21:20,279
later or as a doctor you say that

560
00:21:24,199 --> 00:21:22,739
wouldn't work so well say if that was

561
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:24,209
the case they would have come up come

562
00:21:27,469 --> 00:21:26,039
out and said that the smaller does they

563
00:21:29,659 --> 00:21:27,479
ever really sort of like said much about

564
00:21:33,139 --> 00:21:29,669
it they've just been staying a little

565
00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:33,149
bit mum about it so so the issue that

566
00:21:37,389 --> 00:21:35,190
really comes forward is that a lot of

567
00:21:40,849 --> 00:21:37,399
people are advocating that it may be

568
00:21:43,129 --> 00:21:40,859
Chinese political prisoners that were

569
00:21:45,139 --> 00:21:43,139
then executed and then their bodies have

570
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:45,149
been used so we can hope the exhibit

571
00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:47,129
gets taken down or removed but I think

572
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:49,320
from a consent point of view just like

573
00:21:53,959 --> 00:21:51,570
alien abduction you're really wanting

574
00:21:55,849 --> 00:21:53,969
people to consent to their bodies being

575
00:21:58,099 --> 00:21:55,859
displayed and it's sort of a cruel irony

576
00:21:59,810 --> 00:21:58,109
if somebody's a political prisoner

577
00:22:09,879 --> 00:21:59,820
executed and then people are making

578
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:09,889
money from them special guest speaker I

579
00:22:18,379 --> 00:22:14,849
first met Angela 18 years ago and the

580
00:22:20,779 --> 00:22:18,389
DragonCon convention in Atlanta Georgia

581
00:22:23,060 --> 00:22:20,789
where I was very privileged to be a

582
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:23,070
guest it's a big science fiction

583
00:22:27,610 --> 00:22:24,450
basically it's a science fiction

584
00:22:29,549 --> 00:22:27,620
convention and

585
00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:29,559
but in more recent years they've

586
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:33,100
introduced a skeptic tracking which is

587
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:37,010
fantastic and dr. Antle exit eight to be

588
00:22:40,299 --> 00:22:38,570
part of the audience of the skeptic

589
00:22:42,730 --> 00:22:40,309
track when I am lucky who was speaking

590
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:42,740
and we sort of met each other then it

591
00:22:49,419 --> 00:22:45,710
would be very close friends over the

592
00:22:51,399 --> 00:22:49,429
years dr. angela is a world renowned

593
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:51,409
world speakers she's spoken quite a few

594
00:22:53,919 --> 00:22:52,970
times in Australia she speaks all over

595
00:22:57,310 --> 00:22:53,929
the United States

596
00:23:01,299 --> 00:22:57,320
she's an emergency physician and she's

597
00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:01,309
the the woman you really want to have on

598
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:02,809
your side when the chips are down and

599
00:23:07,299 --> 00:23:04,730
you come into the ER and your legs

600
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:07,309
missing or something to receive she's

601
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:10,510
the woman that you really need to see

602
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:20,210
when you've reins of Missy well ladies

603
00:23:24,430 --> 00:23:22,850
and gentlemen she's here she's having a

604
00:23:26,860 --> 00:23:24,440
wonderful time in Australia we had a

605
00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:26,870
wonderful talking a tour of the Botanic

606
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:28,360
Gardens yesterday we walked all around

607
00:23:34,029 --> 00:23:31,039
because she planned it very carefully

608
00:23:36,010 --> 00:23:34,039
she had a big birthday and she flew over

609
00:23:37,210 --> 00:23:36,020
from the states to make sure that she

610
00:23:42,430 --> 00:23:37,220
went over the dateline

611
00:23:55,740 --> 00:23:42,440
yes would you like to join with me in

612
00:23:55,750 --> 00:24:00,370
Oh

613
00:24:00,380 --> 00:24:11,470
[Applause]

614
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:15,710
and as an emergency physician and I want

615
00:24:18,380 --> 00:24:16,770
to get seriously what is the biggest

616
00:24:20,180 --> 00:24:18,390
challenge because some people like

617
00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:20,190
working in emergency because it's all

618
00:24:25,010 --> 00:24:23,279
very very high P and go and if people

619
00:24:26,510 --> 00:24:25,020
have the continuing trouble they move to

620
00:24:28,430 --> 00:24:26,520
another ward so some people like

621
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,440
emergency for that reason it's all very

622
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:30,840
acute but some people don't like it

623
00:24:34,190 --> 00:24:32,400
because you see people that die on you

624
00:24:36,610 --> 00:24:34,200
all the time too and how do you work

625
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:36,620
that out and what drew you to it

626
00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:39,570
that's a good question and when you're

627
00:24:42,860 --> 00:24:41,190
when you're in training you discover

628
00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:42,870
that there are certain personality types

629
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:44,460
that tend to be attracted to different

630
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:47,279
specialties so if you have your group of

631
00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:48,690
neurologists they're gonna all tend to

632
00:24:52,580 --> 00:24:50,460
have sort of the similar personality

633
00:24:54,620 --> 00:24:52,590
types in general emergency physicians we

634
00:25:00,680 --> 00:24:54,630
all be the ones with the god complex

635
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:00,690
I mean surgical specialty but I'm not

636
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:02,610
saying you know other physicians do not

637
00:25:06,769 --> 00:25:04,559
also have that potential but but

638
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:06,779
emergency physicians we all tend to have

639
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:09,360
a little bit of a DD because if you

640
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:11,610
don't start the specialty with attention

641
00:25:15,019 --> 00:25:13,049
deficit you will end it with that

642
00:25:16,970 --> 00:25:15,029
because of the numbers of interruptions

643
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:16,980
and such but it's so there's nothing

644
00:25:22,370 --> 00:25:20,970
more rewarding to me then then having

645
00:25:24,649 --> 00:25:22,380
this interaction with someone that is

646
00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:24,659
usually the very worst moment of their

647
00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:28,110
life at that point and you can help

648
00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:31,140
hopefully make it less bad you can

649
00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:32,520
Shepherd them through it and sometimes

650
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:34,440
you can actually make them better and

651
00:25:37,399 --> 00:25:35,970
how do you go with very quickly having

652
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:37,409
to explain to the family what's

653
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:39,210
happening that all must be a specialty

654
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:42,240
skill on its own it is a special skill

655
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:44,010
on its own and

656
00:25:50,210 --> 00:25:47,730
we as a specialty do tend to develop

657
00:25:51,769 --> 00:25:50,220
those sorts of skills it is sometimes

658
00:25:55,370 --> 00:25:51,779
very difficult to maintain your

659
00:25:56,899 --> 00:25:55,380
professional objectivity and often it's

660
00:25:58,370 --> 00:25:56,909
got to be done quickly because speed is

661
00:26:00,560 --> 00:25:58,380
of the essence with some problems as

662
00:26:02,299 --> 00:26:00,570
well it can be but fortunately most

663
00:26:03,649 --> 00:26:02,309
people do understand that we're trying

664
00:26:08,450 --> 00:26:03,659
very hard to help them and they

665
00:26:10,130 --> 00:26:08,460
generally are very kind in their in

666
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:10,140
their interactions there are some that

667
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:12,570
are not but but we've been but we always

668
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:18,450
we always it's often a very bad day if

669
00:26:22,970 --> 00:26:20,010
you're meeting an emergency physician in

670
00:26:24,980 --> 00:26:22,980
my in my practice if you're just having

671
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:24,990
a bad day all around and I imagine it

672
00:26:29,419 --> 00:26:26,340
must be especially difficult with

673
00:26:30,889 --> 00:26:29,429
children it can be very difficult with

674
00:26:32,779 --> 00:26:30,899
children they don't understand what's

675
00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:32,789
going on and in the rare and

676
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,289
heartbreaking case when you have to

677
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:36,000
explain to a parent that a child has

678
00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:38,010
died it's literally one of the worst

679
00:26:41,779 --> 00:26:40,169
things I've ever had to deal with and as

680
00:26:44,299 --> 00:26:41,789
it days when you've thought to walk away

681
00:26:46,159 --> 00:26:44,309
from it and maybe think of Dermatology

682
00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:46,169
or some other section yeah I can't

683
00:26:49,370 --> 00:26:48,809
imagine doing anything else I really

684
00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:49,380
can't

685
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:52,350
and so how do you and this is actually

686
00:26:56,930 --> 00:26:54,960
useful for anyone doing any job anywhere

687
00:26:58,159 --> 00:26:56,940
how do you let it go when you get home

688
00:26:59,720 --> 00:26:58,169
how do you get it out of your life how

689
00:27:04,480 --> 00:26:59,730
do you decompress when you've had a

690
00:27:10,909 --> 00:27:08,539
that'll distract you well it's hard to

691
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:10,919
do sometimes you must have something you

692
00:27:16,340 --> 00:27:14,370
you you do well travel has always been

693
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,350
rather cathartic for me I went to a joke

694
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:18,240
when I say I came to Australia but it's

695
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:21,270
really something that I find I find very

696
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:24,770
rewarding many folks have hobbies

697
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:29,970
spending time with family is very the

698
00:27:35,150 --> 00:27:32,970
rounding well grounding and it's more

699
00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:35,160
like restorative is the way there are

700
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:37,140
lots of lots of folks have different

701
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:41,370
coping mechanisms sometimes the demands

702
00:27:47,030 --> 00:27:44,850
out last the coping and so then you have

703
00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:47,040
to be recognized those moments of

704
00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:49,980
burnout things like that and so you can

705
00:27:54,260 --> 00:27:52,140
either adjust your practice or you know

706
00:27:57,260 --> 00:27:54,270
do what you need to do to keep yourself

707
00:28:00,140 --> 00:27:57,270
and keep yourself together it's hard

708
00:28:02,660 --> 00:28:00,150
though it's sometimes it's very your

709
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:02,670
license to practice in six states I find

710
00:28:05,630 --> 00:28:04,320
that a rather interesting number is

711
00:28:07,730 --> 00:28:05,640
there some states that have got a really

712
00:28:13,090 --> 00:28:07,740
hard exam and some that go are you will

713
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:13,100
have anyone anyone but Florida come on

714
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,410
they require meant but there are a lot

715
00:28:20,540 --> 00:28:18,720
of overlapping requirements we also now

716
00:28:22,610 --> 00:28:20,550
have an interstate licensure compact

717
00:28:24,350 --> 00:28:22,620
that gives reciprocity between some of

718
00:28:26,390 --> 00:28:24,360
the states and so that does accelerate

719
00:28:28,130 --> 00:28:26,400
your practice in Hawaii that'd be cool

720
00:28:31,670 --> 00:28:28,140
that would be cool but it's pretty hard

721
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:31,680
to get a Hawaii license what I spoke too

722
00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:33,210
much dope there is that the problem no I

723
00:28:36,260 --> 00:28:34,860
don't think that's the problem it's just

724
00:28:40,340 --> 00:28:36,270
there are some states that have a higher

725
00:28:43,220 --> 00:28:40,350
bar than others but but if in general if

726
00:28:44,390 --> 00:28:43,230
you're a qualified physician and you

727
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:44,400
jumped through all the hoops it's

728
00:28:47,690 --> 00:28:45,930
generally not that just some take longer

729
00:28:50,150 --> 00:28:47,700
than others and of course here in

730
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:50,160
Australia we would there be you probably

731
00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:51,360
wouldn't know but other differences

732
00:28:55,940 --> 00:28:52,380
between the way they practice

733
00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:55,950
emergencies physicians here and in

734
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,510
America is there any differences you

735
00:29:02,300 --> 00:28:59,760
know about well the practice of medicine

736
00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:02,310
is pretty much the same everything some

737
00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:05,070
some therapies or some procedure or

738
00:29:08,270 --> 00:29:06,300
flowchart that might be slightly

739
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:08,280
different well science is the same

740
00:29:10,570 --> 00:29:08,850
everywhere

741
00:29:13,210 --> 00:29:10,580
it's a matter of

742
00:29:15,610 --> 00:29:13,220
some particular legal things or some

743
00:29:17,530 --> 00:29:15,620
particular procedural things some

744
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:17,540
certain unit is you would have to carry

745
00:29:21,070 --> 00:29:19,850
a lot of personal insurance with you

746
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:21,080
within the American system because

747
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:22,310
people could sue you for malpractice

748
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:25,600
even in an emergency situation good

749
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,120
typically you well I can't say typically

750
00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:31,520
every different practice has a different

751
00:29:35,140 --> 00:29:32,600
method of insurance but we have

752
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:35,150
companies that cover malpractice I

753
00:29:45,490 --> 00:29:36,710
imagine with the sort of claims you get

754
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:45,500
there would not be cheap a little bit

755
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:47,930
more in the American system because if

756
00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:49,010
you want to get into it you've got to

757
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:50,750
have that to be able to pay it and that

758
00:29:55,570 --> 00:29:52,880
drives that cost time they build that

759
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:55,580
into understanding in most places you

760
00:30:00,730 --> 00:29:57,770
work have that as part of it as part of

761
00:30:02,290 --> 00:30:00,740
your benefits package and I guess you'd

762
00:30:06,430 --> 00:30:02,300
be a big fan dr. Phil then because he's

763
00:30:09,070 --> 00:30:06,440
a doctor no your silence speaks volumes

764
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:09,080
on that but look enjoy your cake here

765
00:30:13,390 --> 00:30:10,640
you got a cake what sort of cake is

766
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:13,400
about the way it is delicious I don't

767
00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:15,200
know exactly what it is but it's my

768
00:30:18,490 --> 00:30:17,000
birthday cake and so it's happy birthday

769
00:30:19,870 --> 00:30:18,500
thank you for coming straight we always

770
00:30:21,370 --> 00:30:19,880
have a lot of fun I met you up in

771
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:21,380
Brisbane when you were there and it was

772
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:23,120
great fun have a great time and enjoy

773
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:25,760
Melbourne yeah thank you so much mate it

774
00:30:33,790 --> 00:30:32,230
we have a new listener here here is the

775
00:30:36,190 --> 00:30:33,800
new listener skeptic journalist is who

776
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:36,200
we got Rowan Smith hey now why did you

777
00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:37,520
start listening and is this your first

778
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:39,800
time along here this is my first time to

779
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:41,930
skeptics in the pub by now what brought

780
00:30:45,700 --> 00:30:44,090
me along why why well I've been

781
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:45,710
listening for a while I thought I'd

782
00:30:49,210 --> 00:30:47,690
better finally turn up and now fear of

783
00:30:50,410 --> 00:30:49,220
them and I've been asking the new people

784
00:30:53,290 --> 00:30:50,420
what are you skeptical about what's the

785
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:53,300
thing that makes you go I've come on I

786
00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:55,610
have a passion for fitness tall force my

787
00:31:01,030 --> 00:30:58,490
skepticism of people's belief in what

788
00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:01,040
they see as a as a a witness or as a

789
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:01,700
first-hand

790
00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:05,360
observed so that the same as the piston

791
00:31:08,970 --> 00:31:07,100
moment homology as to why people believe

792
00:31:12,090 --> 00:31:08,980
what they believe but was that similar

793
00:31:14,129 --> 00:31:12,100
now more along the lines of how the how

794
00:31:15,539 --> 00:31:14,139
the mind works and and the deception

795
00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:15,549
that is going on within your own mind

796
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:18,190
and so you believe you believe what you

797
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:20,110
may see as a witness so first what you

798
00:31:24,769 --> 00:31:22,750
believe is first-hand evidence I work as

799
00:31:28,769 --> 00:31:24,779
an investigator and I frequently see

800
00:31:30,210 --> 00:31:28,779
people who have observed a situation

801
00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:30,220
unfold and there may be five different

802
00:31:33,539 --> 00:31:31,750
people who have seen the same situation

803
00:31:35,310 --> 00:31:33,549
I heard I heard something on squaring

804
00:31:36,930 --> 00:31:35,320
and strange they said that investigators

805
00:31:38,759 --> 00:31:36,940
if there's been a bit of a violent crime

806
00:31:40,289 --> 00:31:38,769
and someone had to chase someone that if

807
00:31:41,789 --> 00:31:40,299
someone is more angered and had to chase

808
00:31:44,610 --> 00:31:41,799
someone they will more likely see the

809
00:31:45,930 --> 00:31:44,620
person wearing a red something then then

810
00:31:48,779 --> 00:31:45,940
that there was actually blue is it

811
00:31:49,919 --> 00:31:48,789
possible that if you are in a violent

812
00:31:51,870 --> 00:31:49,929
situation you might see a different

813
00:31:54,539 --> 00:31:51,880
color because of the shock of the whole

814
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:54,549
thing I don't know I'm probably a bit

815
00:31:59,279 --> 00:31:56,799
behind a bit beyond what I know but but

816
00:32:01,799 --> 00:31:59,289
certainly I think people rely on their

817
00:32:03,539 --> 00:32:01,809
own experiences and their own experience

818
00:32:05,820 --> 00:32:03,549
or their own memory of previous

819
00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:05,830
experiences can often influence what

820
00:32:10,529 --> 00:32:07,750
they think they saw on this particular

821
00:32:14,220 --> 00:32:10,539
occasion that's why to me the whole idea

822
00:32:16,649 --> 00:32:14,230
of a witness and eyewitness account is

823
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:16,659
pretty much fundamentally very flawed

824
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:19,600
mmm yes so in cross-examination in the

825
00:32:24,570 --> 00:32:22,570
courtroom can most people come undone if

826
00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:24,580
you ask the right questions absolutely

827
00:32:28,169 --> 00:32:26,110
and there's a really good series has

828
00:32:30,779 --> 00:32:28,179
been done by Elizabeth Loftus in the

829
00:32:33,389 --> 00:32:30,789
United States which shows that in a

830
00:32:35,580 --> 00:32:33,399
courtroom situation and just how easily

831
00:32:38,610 --> 00:32:35,590
influenced jurors can be and I think she

832
00:32:40,889 --> 00:32:38,620
ever did a did a historical study on a

833
00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:40,899
number of people who were released from

834
00:32:46,529 --> 00:32:44,049
prison for serious crimes when they had

835
00:32:48,210 --> 00:32:46,539
discovered DNA evidence prove that the

836
00:32:50,970 --> 00:32:48,220
person hadn't committed the crime and

837
00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:50,980
and as many as something in the order of

838
00:32:56,009 --> 00:32:52,990
60 or 70 percent of those people had

839
00:32:57,930 --> 00:32:56,019
been convicted on eyewitness evidence

840
00:32:59,879 --> 00:32:57,940
alone so when you read a story about

841
00:33:01,860 --> 00:32:59,889
Sherlock Holmes and his powers of

842
00:33:03,389 --> 00:33:01,870
observation do you think he was just

843
00:33:04,620 --> 00:33:03,399
like smoking the pipe a bit much or do

844
00:33:07,230 --> 00:33:04,630
you think someone could be that

845
00:33:08,620 --> 00:33:07,240
observant now I think it's made for a

846
00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:08,630
good reading yeah

847
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:10,760
that's right look I have been asking

848
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:12,530
everybody if they could be abducted by

849
00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:14,330
aliens would that be abducted by aliens

850
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:16,940
and if so you could do a deal with them

851
00:33:19,660 --> 00:33:18,530
to go anywhere in the solar system where

852
00:33:22,530 --> 00:33:19,670
do you think you'd like to go

853
00:33:24,580 --> 00:33:22,540
now there's two simple questions - yeah

854
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:24,590
I'd love to be abducted by aliens

855
00:33:29,260 --> 00:33:26,960
because then it would prove that it

856
00:33:30,790 --> 00:33:29,270
exists if it does exist that's true so

857
00:33:33,490 --> 00:33:30,800
we have some evidence finally that's

858
00:33:35,290 --> 00:33:33,500
true but until that time why I sort of

859
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:35,300
doubt it very much that they exist but

860
00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:38,330
that's another story where I like to go

861
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:42,830
yeah let's keep it local look Jupiter

862
00:33:46,990 --> 00:33:45,440
looks pretty interesting it's that big

863
00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:47,000
that big storm that carries on that it's

864
00:33:50,050 --> 00:33:48,710
bigger than the earth here because

865
00:33:52,450 --> 00:33:50,060
obviously because I've spoken to people

866
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:52,460
about this on the paranormal side and

867
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:53,570
they say well if someone's seeing

868
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:55,010
something for another dimension or

869
00:34:01,090 --> 00:33:56,810
someone is seeing a spaceship and you've

870
00:34:02,410 --> 00:34:01,100
got no no no no reference at all but

871
00:34:03,580 --> 00:34:02,420
maybe the descriptions are going to be

872
00:34:05,410 --> 00:34:03,590
odd because you've got nothing to

873
00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:05,420
compare it to so could that be an

874
00:34:09,220 --> 00:34:07,070
explanation as to why sometimes these

875
00:34:11,410 --> 00:34:09,230
things sound sketchy oh could be it

876
00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:11,420
could well way yeah because I mean yeah

877
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:12,950
I'm because I've hard to think of an

878
00:34:18,190 --> 00:34:14,720
example of something you've got no idea

879
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:18,200
what it is to describe well I think that

880
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:19,970
I expect what Laura is saying before

881
00:34:24,820 --> 00:34:23,330
where people people's memories are so

882
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:24,830
influenced by their own personal

883
00:34:30,610 --> 00:34:26,570
experiences previous experiences and

884
00:34:32,590 --> 00:34:30,620
that just absolutely was the lines as to

885
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:32,600
what they will describe is theirs having

886
00:34:36,250 --> 00:34:35,210
seen yeah that's very true

887
00:34:38,020 --> 00:34:36,260
right now what do you think of the talks

888
00:34:39,850 --> 00:34:38,030
and I try to get really good you know

889
00:34:40,990 --> 00:34:39,860
know how you feel about that that woman

890
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:41,000
that are supposed to have to lots of

891
00:34:44,770 --> 00:34:43,130
would want nine kids and then shed like

892
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:44,780
eleven kids like three days later or

893
00:34:48,190 --> 00:34:46,250
something I'll come it gave a whole new

894
00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:48,200
idea for the hula hoop denied the Hulu

895
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:50,750
walking around but the first thought was

896
00:34:55,570 --> 00:34:52,490
the poor woman then I thought hang on I

897
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:55,580
think someone's making this absolutely

898
00:34:58,090 --> 00:34:56,930
go we hope to see you back again

899
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:58,100
sometime that's great thank you very

900
00:35:02,140 --> 00:35:00,320
much

901
00:35:07,110 --> 00:35:02,150
of course don't forget the sound effects

902
00:35:09,460 --> 00:35:07,120
that Richard Saunders gave me love it

903
00:35:14,670 --> 00:35:09,470
for you air overseas assistance that's

904
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:14,680
actual sound of a kangaroo hmm large red

905
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:17,390
also we'd like to give a special skeptic

906
00:35:23,770 --> 00:35:19,850
zone shout out to George Arab of the

907
00:35:26,050 --> 00:35:23,780
geologic podcast he was mimicking or he

908
00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:26,060
was giving a secret signal to us in the

909
00:35:30,730 --> 00:35:29,270
latest edition of the geologic podcast

910
00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:30,740
jugar from mom

911
00:35:36,580 --> 00:35:34,070
hey you as we do sometimes at the end of

912
00:35:38,890 --> 00:35:36,590
their planet Manor dot-com dot hey you

913
00:35:41,170 --> 00:35:38,900
all I can say back the George's you

914
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:41,180
should buy something but if you're not

915
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:43,610
Jewish I finally got that joke only last

916
00:35:47,980 --> 00:35:45,920
week it took me a while just cuz I don't

917
00:35:50,830 --> 00:35:47,990
know any many Jewish people but now I

918
00:35:54,070 --> 00:35:50,840
know I get it Oh what is it again sir

919
00:35:56,980 --> 00:35:54,080
its convention dots Coptics no no

920
00:36:01,300 --> 00:35:56,990
there's no scallops convention dot

921
00:36:03,370 --> 00:36:01,310
skeptics calm dot a you that's good well

922
00:36:10,270 --> 00:36:03,380
I'll see you there and be great to see

923
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:10,280
you there too we've got on someone here

924
00:36:14,890 --> 00:36:12,890
from the Great Pacific Northwest which

925
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:14,900
when I think of that I think of Jhansi

926
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:16,490
Dvorak from the real agenda show but

927
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:18,290
also I think of Brian Dunning and I

928
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:20,650
think of Bigfoot but who we got here

929
00:36:26,140 --> 00:36:24,170
Kalyan Turner Wow unlike you are you a

930
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:26,150
hipster from Portland mmm

931
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:28,640
I wouldn't say my hipster I rock climb I

932
00:36:33,580 --> 00:36:31,610
go climb mountains and drink a lot of

933
00:36:35,830 --> 00:36:33,590
good craft beer oh I do like that

934
00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:35,840
actually is it dude does Portland have

935
00:36:40,090 --> 00:36:37,340
hipsters is that just something as an

936
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:40,100
urban myth yes oh okay good yes Portland

937
00:36:43,660 --> 00:36:42,290
has plenty of hipsters there are plenty

938
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:43,670
of people who want to keep Portland

939
00:36:47,980 --> 00:36:45,890
weird and people rotting penny-farthing

940
00:36:50,290 --> 00:36:47,990
vaj circles around stuff like that we

941
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:50,300
get that in Melbourne in Northcote I've

942
00:36:55,150 --> 00:36:52,640
seen people walking around in collars

943
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:55,160
and other kind of things suddenly now

944
00:36:59,220 --> 00:36:57,440
you're talking my wheelhouse this is

945
00:37:03,310 --> 00:36:59,230
it's too cold there for that

946
00:37:06,190 --> 00:37:03,320
not that kind of collar it's more

947
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:06,200
hipster okay I think we're cost purposes

948
00:37:08,590 --> 00:37:07,910
here but how is did you find the meeting

949
00:37:11,530 --> 00:37:08,600
tonight what do you think of us

950
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:11,540
Australian sceptics it was really nice

951
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:13,610
it was cool I really like to see that

952
00:37:18,370 --> 00:37:14,290
for

953
00:37:21,010 --> 00:37:18,380
that discussion I've been listening to

954
00:37:24,850 --> 00:37:21,020
this skeptic zone after I heard about it

955
00:37:27,460 --> 00:37:24,860
through the skeptics guide to the

956
00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:27,470
universe and like what you guys were

957
00:37:34,810 --> 00:37:31,280
doing with your the listener I am we've

958
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:34,820
met the listener is great what you'll be

959
00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:37,910
doing be doing more of on the show um do

960
00:37:46,660 --> 00:37:41,060
you think the cat should be hosting we

961
00:37:48,940 --> 00:37:46,670
should hear the cat a little more it

962
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:48,950
makes me miss my kitty when I since I've

963
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:52,130
left the states but I am really liking

964
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:54,530
what you're doing with the anti-vaxxers

965
00:38:00,520 --> 00:37:58,000
because what they do there

966
00:38:03,550 --> 00:38:00,530
unfortunately killing kids and it

967
00:38:06,250 --> 00:38:03,560
disgusts me and I know you guys hosted

968
00:38:10,170 --> 00:38:06,260
the god-awful movie guys here my

969
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:10,180
favorite episode of them is the anti vex

970
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:13,250
with the Sai babe who's coming tears

971
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:15,440
this conference yeah she's gonna be here

972
00:38:19,090 --> 00:38:17,090
look my favorite god awful movie it's

973
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:19,100
got to be Bible man I gotta say Bible

974
00:38:23,020 --> 00:38:21,410
man's worth bit of a theft and you yeah

975
00:38:25,330 --> 00:38:23,030
that one was pretty good that was pretty

976
00:38:27,310 --> 00:38:25,340
good okay they are adorable is the [\h__\h]

977
00:38:29,620 --> 00:38:27,320
we which is showing photo the skeptical

978
00:38:33,580 --> 00:38:29,630
cats now they actually look exactly like

979
00:38:35,470 --> 00:38:33,590
my kitty before I left the states it's

980
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:35,480
amazing because people actually were far

981
00:38:38,170 --> 00:38:36,770
fine if they're driving along and they

982
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:38,180
hear the purring they're sometimes pull

983
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:39,200
over to the side of the road because

984
00:38:44,050 --> 00:38:40,730
it's very relaxing and they don't want

985
00:38:46,810 --> 00:38:44,060
to drive to the purring well I listen to

986
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:46,820
it on the train on my podcast and it's a

987
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:49,970
good good podcast now what what's the

988
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:52,609
whoo other than anti-vaxxer really makes

989
00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:54,800
you see red or one that you like find

990
00:38:58,540 --> 00:38:56,750
harmless but like to follow like myself

991
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:58,550
I love ancient aliens I love watching

992
00:39:02,410 --> 00:39:01,040
ancient aliens I love watching hangar 51

993
00:39:03,820 --> 00:39:02,420
all that kind of stuff on the History

994
00:39:05,980 --> 00:39:03,830
Channel which is odd it should be on the

995
00:39:08,140 --> 00:39:05,990
sci-fi channel but anyway yeah I like

996
00:39:11,050 --> 00:39:08,150
that stuff here I think my two big ones

997
00:39:14,590 --> 00:39:11,060
is homeopathy because the idea that

998
00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:14,600
there's still water doing has memory but

999
00:39:20,620 --> 00:39:17,240
it doesn't as a great elective memory

1000
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:20,630
exactly as a great australian said to

1001
00:39:24,430 --> 00:39:23,690
Mitchum it the water remembers the

1002
00:39:28,140 --> 00:39:24,440
medicine in a

1003
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:28,150
but not the puh it had in it and I also

1004
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:30,530
really dislike Eastern medicine

1005
00:39:35,530 --> 00:39:32,710
especially the stuff that is using

1006
00:39:37,780 --> 00:39:35,540
endangered species and calling it

1007
00:39:40,420 --> 00:39:37,790
medicine and killing off wonderful

1008
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:40,430
wonderful animals I'm just happy that

1009
00:39:44,770 --> 00:39:42,530
some poachers got what came to them

1010
00:39:45,970 --> 00:39:44,780
recently that was some good news it

1011
00:39:48,970 --> 00:39:45,980
happens it runs through all over and

1012
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:48,980
goes yeah yep but yeah I think those are

1013
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:51,170
the big ones for me other than ant FX

1014
00:39:59,500 --> 00:39:55,130
anything that's doing real harm people

1015
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:59,510
using needles for acupuncture but not

1016
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:01,040
actually knowing what they're doing and

1017
00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:03,170
so using not even using gloves and using

1018
00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:05,569
needles again and spreading diseases and

1019
00:40:12,030 --> 00:40:07,849
then being like oh I didn't know I could

1020
00:40:14,290 --> 00:40:12,040
do that or chiropractors using babies

1021
00:40:16,089 --> 00:40:14,300
yeah then the question I have been

1022
00:40:17,770 --> 00:40:16,099
asking everybody is would you like to be

1023
00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:17,780
abducted by aliens just to say what it's

1024
00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:21,710
like yes this whole things about hey

1025
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:25,280
Bing right I want to I want do I think

1026
00:40:30,819 --> 00:40:28,880
that there is life outside the planet

1027
00:40:33,550 --> 00:40:30,829
Earth yes do I think we'll ever mean it

1028
00:40:36,370 --> 00:40:33,560
no because but unless they have figured

1029
00:40:39,010 --> 00:40:36,380
out how to travel across space and time

1030
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:39,020
faster than the speed of light the space

1031
00:40:43,780 --> 00:40:41,210
is just too big but if I couldn't meet

1032
00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:43,790
them the fact that they're here means

1033
00:40:50,109 --> 00:40:46,790
that they have technology far far and

1034
00:40:52,329 --> 00:40:50,119
beyond whatever we have and it would be

1035
00:40:53,890 --> 00:40:52,339
an insanely incredible experience

1036
00:40:55,180 --> 00:40:53,900
Richard it's the end of the show here

1037
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:55,190
it's time for me to get going so you can

1038
00:40:59,050 --> 00:40:56,800
get on with the rest of the skeptic zone

1039
00:41:01,930 --> 00:40:59,060
Thank You Man and thank you for coming

1040
00:41:04,540 --> 00:41:01,940
like Dr Ng happy birthday once again a

1041
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:04,550
fabulous talk everyone really enjoyed it

1042
00:41:09,130 --> 00:41:07,520
and please come back and of course we

1043
00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:09,140
forgot to ask you about aliens yourself

1044
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:10,430
would you like to be abducted by aliens

1045
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:12,770
Richard and if so where would you like

1046
00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:13,910
them to take you in the solar system

1047
00:41:18,970 --> 00:41:16,420
we've had a chance

1048
00:41:20,859 --> 00:41:18,980
yes she's always with the probe this one

1049
00:41:22,809 --> 00:41:20,869
not nice mom but she's a doctor she can

1050
00:41:24,190 --> 00:41:22,819
talk about it Mars because that's where

1051
00:41:27,250 --> 00:41:24,200
when we probe Mars for I want to be

1052
00:41:30,190 --> 00:41:27,260
probed in Mars because I'd like to go to

1053
00:41:31,170 --> 00:41:30,200
Olympus Mons I like to go to Olympus

1054
00:41:34,140 --> 00:41:31,180
Mons

1055
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:34,150
right okay there are so many jokes I

1056
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:35,530
could say but none of them come I'm not

1057
00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:36,370
gonna do anything right now

1058
00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:37,900
all right I'd like to go to the Valles

1059
00:41:42,900 --> 00:41:40,660
the valley Valles Marineris Moranis

1060
00:41:45,180 --> 00:41:42,910
thank you Dr Ng yes okay cool

1061
00:41:46,530 --> 00:41:45,190
okay well you do that and it's on with

1062
00:41:47,790 --> 00:41:46,540
the show now Richard and these cats like

1063
00:41:49,230 --> 00:41:47,800
kind of stuff I'm gonna go to bed I'm

1064
00:41:55,170 --> 00:41:49,240
gonna go home and have some food got see

1065
00:42:11,180 --> 00:42:04,880
[Music]

1066
00:42:13,579 --> 00:42:11,190
hi I'm Yvette Tantra ma aka Sai babe and

1067
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:13,589
I debunk bad science for a living this

1068
00:42:18,349 --> 00:42:16,740
includes health nutrition and general BS

1069
00:42:20,030 --> 00:42:18,359
on the internet and I'm looking forward

1070
00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:20,040
to seeing you all at skeptic on on

1071
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:32,790
Australia this october canberra skeptics

1072
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:35,970
proudly presents strategy strikes back

1073
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:39,570
how Star Wars explains modern military

1074
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:43,050
conflict now this will be on Tuesday the

1075
00:42:50,839 --> 00:42:47,130
24th of July from 6:30 p.m. at the

1076
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:50,849
Belconnen Soccer Club and the talk is

1077
00:42:56,750 --> 00:42:54,480
free the speaker McCook hosts the dead

1078
00:42:58,849 --> 00:42:56,760
up Russian podcast and is passionate

1079
00:43:01,880 --> 00:42:58,859
about encouraging critical thought on

1080
00:43:05,059 --> 00:43:01,890
war among military professionals and

1081
00:43:07,150 --> 00:43:05,069
policy makers the most successful film

1082
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:07,160
franchise of all time Star Wars

1083
00:43:12,020 --> 00:43:09,890
thrillingly depicts an epic

1084
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:12,030
multi-generational conflict fought a

1085
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:14,609
long time ago in a galaxy far far away

1086
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:17,970
but the Star Wars saga has as much to

1087
00:43:22,609 --> 00:43:20,130
say about successful strategies and real

1088
00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:22,619
time warfare waged in our own timeline

1089
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:26,190
in place strategy Strikes Back brings

1090
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:28,050
together over 30 of the day's top

1091
00:43:34,609 --> 00:43:31,650
military and strategic experts including

1092
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:34,619
general policy advisors seasoned

1093
00:43:40,700 --> 00:43:38,010
diplomats counterinsurgency strategists

1094
00:43:43,309 --> 00:43:40,710
science fiction writers war journalists

1095
00:43:45,650 --> 00:43:43,319
and ground-level military officers to

1096
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:45,660
explain the strategy and the art of war

1097
00:43:51,950 --> 00:43:49,890
by the way of Star Wars films now dinner

1098
00:43:53,780 --> 00:43:51,960
will follow the talk at the Belconnen

1099
00:43:59,080 --> 00:43:53,790
soccer club for more information about

1100
00:43:59,090 --> 00:44:03,670
[Music]

1101
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:10,470
www.ccltss.org or

1102
00:44:16,510 --> 00:44:12,880
by the Canberra skeptics Tuesday the

1103
00:44:33,420 --> 00:44:16,520
24th of July 6:30 to 7:30 p.m.

1104
00:44:41,229 --> 00:44:37,599
homeopathy must be the most wide known

1105
00:44:43,749 --> 00:44:41,239
form of quackery on the planet for many

1106
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:43,759
years many years of course Australian

1107
00:44:49,089 --> 00:44:47,210
skeptics and sceptical organizations

1108
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:49,099
around the world have been protesting

1109
00:44:56,999 --> 00:44:54,170
against this outright fraud and in a

1110
00:45:02,799 --> 00:44:57,009
very interesting development we read

1111
00:45:04,499 --> 00:45:02,809
from the centre for enquiry and a link

1112
00:45:08,829 --> 00:45:04,509
will be on the show notes for this page

1113
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:08,839
Center for inquiry Sue's CVS for fraud

1114
00:45:16,209 --> 00:45:12,729
over sale of homeopathic fake medicine

1115
00:45:19,979 --> 00:45:16,219
see the s for those people listening

1116
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:19,989
around the world is a chain of

1117
00:45:28,479 --> 00:45:23,650
pharmacies or chemist shop and this is

1118
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,489
dated on the 9th of July the Center for

1119
00:45:32,709 --> 00:45:30,319
inquiry has filed a lawsuit in the

1120
00:45:35,769 --> 00:45:32,719
District of Columbia on behalf of the

1121
00:45:38,559 --> 00:45:35,779
general public against drug retailer CVS

1122
00:45:41,019 --> 00:45:38,569
for Consumer Fraud over its sale and

1123
00:45:44,410 --> 00:45:41,029
marketing of useless homeopathic

1124
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:44,420
medicines CFI an organization advancing

1125
00:45:49,450 --> 00:45:47,119
reason and science accused the country's

1126
00:45:52,180 --> 00:45:49,460
largest drug retailer of deceiving

1127
00:45:55,019 --> 00:45:52,190
consumers through its misrepresentation

1128
00:45:57,700 --> 00:45:55,029
of homeopathy safety and effectiveness

1129
00:46:01,059 --> 00:45:57,710
wasting consumers money and putting

1130
00:46:03,759 --> 00:46:01,069
their health at risk and following that

1131
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:03,769
paragraph there's a link to the official

1132
00:46:08,670 --> 00:46:05,890
complaint in the form of a PDF

1133
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:08,680
homeopathy is an 18th century

1134
00:46:13,930 --> 00:46:11,710
pseudoscience premise on the absurd

1135
00:46:17,079 --> 00:46:13,940
unscientific notion that a substance

1136
00:46:19,529 --> 00:46:17,089
that causes a particular symptom is what

1137
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:19,539
should be ingested to alleviate it

1138
00:46:25,420 --> 00:46:22,249
dangerous substances are deluded to the

1139
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:25,430
point that no trace of the active

1140
00:46:31,059 --> 00:46:28,130
ingredient remains but it's alleged

1141
00:46:32,049 --> 00:46:31,069
effectiveness rests on the nonsensical

1142
00:46:34,479 --> 00:46:32,059
claim that

1143
00:46:37,140 --> 00:46:34,489
water molecules have quote memories in

1144
00:46:39,939 --> 00:46:37,150
quote non the original substance

1145
00:46:44,219 --> 00:46:39,949
homeopathic treatments have no effect

1146
00:46:48,699 --> 00:46:44,229
what so ever beyond that of a placebo

1147
00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:48,709
quote homeopathy is a total sham and the

1148
00:46:54,670 --> 00:46:52,640
CVS knows it yet the company persists in

1149
00:46:56,979 --> 00:46:54,680
deceiving its customers about the

1150
00:47:00,479 --> 00:46:56,989
effectiveness of homeopathic products in

1151
00:47:03,989 --> 00:47:00,489
quote said Nicholas little CF eyes

1152
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:03,999
vice-president and general counsel quote

1153
00:47:11,259 --> 00:47:08,170
homeopathics are shelved right alongside

1154
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:11,269
scientifically proven medicines under

1155
00:47:16,689 --> 00:47:13,729
the same signs for cold and flu pain

1156
00:47:19,660 --> 00:47:16,699
relief sleep aids and so on if you

1157
00:47:22,749 --> 00:47:19,670
search for flu treatment on their

1158
00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:22,759
website it even suggests homeopathics to

1159
00:47:28,959 --> 00:47:27,049
you end quote said little quote CVS is

1160
00:47:31,059 --> 00:47:28,969
making no distinction between those

1161
00:47:33,609 --> 00:47:31,069
products that have been vetted and

1162
00:47:36,429 --> 00:47:33,619
tested by science and those that are

1163
00:47:37,749 --> 00:47:36,439
nothing but snake oil end quote apart

1164
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:37,759
from being a waste of money

1165
00:47:42,819 --> 00:47:40,400
choosing homeopathic treatments to the

1166
00:47:45,579 --> 00:47:42,829
exclusion of evidence based medicines

1167
00:47:49,650 --> 00:47:45,589
can result in worsened or prolonged

1168
00:47:51,910 --> 00:47:49,660
symptoms and in some cases even death

1169
00:47:54,459 --> 00:47:51,920
several products have been found to

1170
00:47:56,979 --> 00:47:54,469
contain poisonous ingredients which have

1171
00:47:59,529 --> 00:47:56,989
affected tens of thousands of adults and

1172
00:48:03,249 --> 00:47:59,539
children just in the last few years

1173
00:48:06,009 --> 00:48:03,259
quote CVS is taking cynical advantage of

1174
00:48:08,890 --> 00:48:06,019
their consumers confusion and Trust in

1175
00:48:11,859 --> 00:48:08,900
the CVS brand and putting their health

1176
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:11,869
at risk to make a profit in quote said

1177
00:48:17,739 --> 00:48:15,049
little quote and they can't claim

1178
00:48:20,349 --> 00:48:17,749
ignorance if the people in charge of the

1179
00:48:22,779 --> 00:48:20,359
country's largest pharmacy don't know

1180
00:48:24,519 --> 00:48:22,789
that homeopathy is bunk they should be

1181
00:48:28,299 --> 00:48:24,529
kept as far away from the American

1182
00:48:30,459 --> 00:48:28,309
health care system as possible we made a

1183
00:48:33,849 --> 00:48:30,469
number of efforts to discuss this

1184
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:33,859
situation with CVS but the concerns we

1185
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:36,650
raised were ignored in quote said Robyn

1186
00:48:44,370 --> 00:48:40,609
bloom nur president and CEO of CF I

1187
00:48:47,099 --> 00:48:44,380
quote homeopathy is a multi-billion

1188
00:48:49,019 --> 00:48:47,109
consumer fraud if CBS would rather line

1189
00:48:52,109 --> 00:48:49,029
its pockets than protect Americans

1190
00:48:54,289 --> 00:48:52,119
health we have no choice but to take

1191
00:48:57,569 --> 00:48:54,299
this fight to the courts end quote

1192
00:48:59,160 --> 00:48:57,579
CFI has for many years lobbied for

1193
00:49:02,489 --> 00:48:59,170
tighter regulation of homeopathic

1194
00:49:05,249 --> 00:49:02,499
products and has been invited by the

1195
00:49:07,469 --> 00:49:05,259
Food and Drug Administration and the

1196
00:49:11,519 --> 00:49:07,479
Federal Trade Commission to provide

1197
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:11,529
expert testimony as a result the FTC

1198
00:49:16,410 --> 00:49:14,170
declared in 2016 that the marketing of

1199
00:49:19,229 --> 00:49:16,420
homeopathic products for specific

1200
00:49:22,589 --> 00:49:19,239
diseases and symptoms is only acceptable

1201
00:49:24,689 --> 00:49:22,599
if consumers are told 1 there is no

1202
00:49:27,539 --> 00:49:24,699
scientific evidence that the product

1203
00:49:29,249 --> 00:49:27,549
works and to the products claims are

1204
00:49:32,910 --> 00:49:29,259
based only on theories of homeopathy

1205
00:49:36,479 --> 00:49:32,920
from the 1700s that are not accepted by

1206
00:49:39,390 --> 00:49:36,489
most modern medical experts in quote and

1207
00:49:42,269 --> 00:49:39,400
last year the FDA announced that a new

1208
00:49:44,429 --> 00:49:42,279
quote risk-based and quote policy of

1209
00:49:48,299 --> 00:49:44,439
regulatory action against homeopathic

1210
00:49:50,099 --> 00:49:48,309
products quote CVS should be warned the

1211
00:49:53,429 --> 00:49:50,109
evidence for our case is extremely

1212
00:49:56,099 --> 00:49:53,439
strong in quote cent Blum nur quote and

1213
00:49:59,219 --> 00:49:56,109
if CVS's endorsement of homeopathy is

1214
00:50:02,090 --> 00:49:59,229
any indication evidence will not be

1215
00:50:04,319 --> 00:50:02,100
their strong suit unquote

1216
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:04,329
[Music]

1217
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:07,130
now what an interesting move this is

1218
00:50:14,260 --> 00:50:10,130
from CFI I encourage you to visit that

1219
00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:14,270
link visit the page to see this for

1220
00:50:19,210 --> 00:50:17,510
yourself and click the click the link

1221
00:50:20,890 --> 00:50:19,220
which will give you access to the

1222
00:50:24,339 --> 00:50:20,900
official complaint which is a little

1223
00:50:26,140 --> 00:50:24,349
more lengthy and formally composed I'm

1224
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:26,150
sure this will be a very interesting

1225
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:28,880
case for skeptical organizations around

1226
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:40,970
[Music]

1227
00:50:44,430 --> 00:50:43,140
they didn't care about the truth they

1228
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:44,440
care about putting on a good show

1229
00:50:49,950 --> 00:50:46,810
science is to me is one of the most

1230
00:50:51,810 --> 00:50:49,960
exciting pursuits of mankind but they

1231
00:50:54,060 --> 00:50:51,820
don't want it that way there's a big

1232
00:50:55,170 --> 00:50:54,070
problem in science programming today you

1233
00:50:57,690 --> 00:50:55,180
know all those Science and History

1234
00:51:00,540 --> 00:50:57,700
series you watch on TV and how they have

1235
00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:00,550
on real science experts scientists you

1236
00:51:05,370 --> 00:51:02,710
trust how would you feel if you found

1237
00:51:07,410 --> 00:51:05,380
out that sometimes they completely twist

1238
00:51:09,330 --> 00:51:07,420
what these experts are saying editing

1239
00:51:12,540 --> 00:51:09,340
them out of context misrepresenting

1240
00:51:14,370 --> 00:51:12,550
their words it really happens

1241
00:51:16,050 --> 00:51:14,380
I'm Brian Dunning and we're going to

1242
00:51:19,410 --> 00:51:16,060
attack this problem in a new feature

1243
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:19,420
documentary film science friction we're

1244
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:21,490
gonna pull back the curtain and talk to

1245
00:51:26,550 --> 00:51:23,170
the experts who have been misrepresented

1246
00:51:29,070 --> 00:51:26,560
and misquoted to find out just how far

1247
00:51:32,550 --> 00:51:29,080
the media is willing to go to sacrifice

1248
00:51:33,570 --> 00:51:32,560
science for ratings the TV network sure

1249
00:51:35,250 --> 00:51:33,580
as hell aren't going to fund our

1250
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:35,260
production so we're making it a

1251
00:51:41,580 --> 00:51:38,050
grassroots effort here's how you can

1252
00:51:43,710 --> 00:51:41,590
help I'm asking you to crowdfund this

1253
00:51:45,570 --> 00:51:43,720
production with us as if science

1254
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:45,580
literacy among the public isn't bad

1255
00:51:49,860 --> 00:51:47,440
enough the source is so many people

1256
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:49,870
trust are making it even worse

1257
00:51:56,550 --> 00:51:52,810
join me in fixing this come to science

1258
00:51:59,870 --> 00:51:56,560
friction TV and join this project right

1259
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:14,220
[Music]

1260
00:52:18,340 --> 00:52:16,630
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1261
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:18,350
zone this week and thank you may not for

1262
00:52:22,090 --> 00:52:19,850
letting me record in your international

1263
00:52:23,770 --> 00:52:22,100
studios annex look there's a lot going

1264
00:52:25,690 --> 00:52:23,780
on a lot of people rushing and hashing a

1265
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:25,700
lot of famous people have got to come in

1266
00:52:29,260 --> 00:52:26,810
here this afternoon although none of

1267
00:52:30,700 --> 00:52:29,270
them have turned up but still I'm here I

1268
00:52:32,740 --> 00:52:30,710
want to thank Richards for his work

1269
00:52:34,750 --> 00:52:32,750
during the week of getting an extremely

1270
00:52:36,610 --> 00:52:34,760
large room divider which we needed here

1271
00:52:37,810 --> 00:52:36,620
for maenad international studios don't

1272
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:37,820
know why I live on my own but I got a

1273
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:39,290
room divider anyway so I can't see

1274
00:52:42,970 --> 00:52:41,210
myself in the mirror and the route and

1275
00:52:44,620 --> 00:52:42,980
it's Baxley bigger than your car and

1276
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:44,630
you've fitted it in your car we drove

1277
00:52:49,150 --> 00:52:47,330
along glebe Point Road to some strange

1278
00:52:51,460 --> 00:52:49,160
looks from on lookers I don't know how

1279
00:52:52,690 --> 00:52:51,470
we did it I do not know but we did we

1280
00:52:54,340 --> 00:52:52,700
went to the shop and we bought a big

1281
00:52:56,110 --> 00:52:54,350
room divider somehow it fit into the

1282
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:56,120
little skeptic zone 'mobile yes look

1283
00:52:58,540 --> 00:52:57,290
even the guy behind the counter said

1284
00:53:00,010 --> 00:52:58,550
what do you need this you live alone he

1285
00:53:01,690 --> 00:53:00,020
said I mean I thought I've got words

1286
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:01,700
getting out there anyway Richard great

1287
00:53:04,540 --> 00:53:03,290
show really good I thought the bits were

1288
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:04,550
mine were probably the you know you

1289
00:53:06,670 --> 00:53:05,570
could have done better that you could

1290
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:06,680
have found someone else to do them but

1291
00:53:10,180 --> 00:53:08,690
still I was glad to help you out and I

1292
00:53:12,250 --> 00:53:10,190
don't forget listeners if you go to this

1293
00:53:15,490 --> 00:53:12,260
week's show notes there are links to a

1294
00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:15,500
radio interview I did at 4 a.m. on ABC

1295
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:17,510
national radio where I take talkback and

1296
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:19,520
you'll hear some interesting people

1297
00:53:24,010 --> 00:53:21,170
calling up to ask me questions people

1298
00:53:27,610 --> 00:53:24,020
who are very convinced they've seen big

1299
00:53:29,980 --> 00:53:27,620
Black Panthers and things cool whatever

1300
00:53:31,390 --> 00:53:29,990
talk about the movie were they no no no

1301
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:31,400
no I've seen the Black Panther movie

1302
00:53:36,580 --> 00:53:33,680
good movie no I'm talking about a real

1303
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:36,590
Black Panther in the in the forest near

1304
00:53:40,750 --> 00:53:38,480
Sydney on around mm-hmm

1305
00:53:42,430 --> 00:53:40,760
so go and have a listen to that don't

1306
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:42,440
have a listen to that but until then

1307
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:45,280
this is Richard Saunders and Maynard

1308
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:48,530
signing off from Sydney Australia see

1309
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:50,240
you later folks remember if you can't be

1310
00:53:58,090 --> 00:53:56,930
skeptical just do something else which

1311
00:54:03,060 --> 00:53:58,100
I've told you to watch out for that

1312
00:54:08,500 --> 00:54:05,590
you've been listening to the skeptic

1313
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:08,510
zone podcast please visit our website at

1314
00:54:18,690 --> 00:54:15,200
wwlp.com tax and to access the bat

1315
00:54:21,340 --> 00:54:18,700
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1316
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:21,350
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1317
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:24,650
on twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1318
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:26,930
facebook page or leave a review on

1319
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:30,290
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1320
00:54:36,010 --> 00:54:33,680
zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic

1321
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:36,020
zone podcast is an independent

1322
00:54:40,150 --> 00:54:37,970
production reviews and opinions

1323
00:54:42,310 --> 00:54:40,160
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1324
00:54:45,300 --> 00:54:42,320
necessarily those of Australian skeptics